kyra_ojosverdes | Feline Manners

Entry tags:

pets

Feline Manners

How in the world does one teach a cat manners? Dogs, sure. Cats?

Jack will not eat off people-dishes. The first time Mark offered Jack some bits of chicken, on a little plate, Jack looked horribly conflicted. (Sort of like when Mark picked him up and put him on the table. He knew he wasn't allowed to be on the table, but he also wasn't supposed to jump away from the kid, that'd just be rude.) He obviously wanted to eat the chicken, but was also obviously certain he was not allowed to eat the chicken, and confused as hell as to why the kid was trying to trick him into eating the chicken. We've since discovered that he'll happily eat the people-food scraps if they're put into his food dish. Only if they're put into his food dish. Not beside his food dish. Inside his food dish.

Jack will meow to be fed in the morning, but only if he thinks you're already awake. If one of the kids is up, he doesn't bother with me. He meows to get the kid's attention, then walks to the top of the stairs and waits for the kid to follow. If the kid fails to follow, he meows again. He then leads the kid down the stairs and to his food and water dishes or, if his litterbox needs some attention, to said litterbox. Then he sits and waits expectantly as his needs are tended to.

If my room is messy, he's in a terrible fix. He won't step on clothing, phone books, papers... he likes to spend lots of time under my bed, so a blocked path is a real problem for him. Before I realized what the issue was, I'd watch him stand there all perplexed, trying to figure out how to get from Point A to Point B without stepping on anything. Interestingly enough he'll step on the phone, which sits on the floor. It's the base to a cordless phone, and so has a nice big speakerphone button right in the middle of it. He'd step on that button everytime, then jump a foot or two at the very loud dial tone. Poor Jack.

Now, he'll pee in corners and on clothing left on the floor. He does look guilty when caught, and runs to hide under my bed. We still have occasional problems with his biting the kids during a petting session. He won't jump up on the counters. He won't jump onto the table, and was very relieved, that one time, when I told Mark that Jack wasn't allowed on the table and to please lift him down. He only jumps onto beds in order to cuddle, never to wake anyone. He's never broken anything.

Who taught this cat manners, and how??? (For those who don't know, we got Jack at the animal shelter in November. He was neutered and declawed and is an indoors-only cat.)

ETA: general opinion in comments is that Jack's former owners were awfully (as in awful) firm in their discipline. This makes me sad. Jack is such a sweet kitty. :-(

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My thought on this? We used to have a cat named Taz, big Maine Coon. Sweet cat, truly. Similar manners. He had a great fear of feet. If you walked too close to him, he'd jump away and slink past, but if you were seated, and not busy, he'd want to cuddle. The only time I can remember him urinating outside the catbox was when he was terribly sick. We're convinced that he'd been treated roughly by his prior owners, perhaps even abused. Meanwhile, the kitten we got recently has terrible manners... he's spoiled.

Any suspicions that Jack was lucky to land in the shelter, perhaps?

Hmmm... no idea. He was found as a stray, which could mean any number of things. (The few times we've accidentally left the door open, he's either hesitantly approached it but not gone out, or gone out very slowly and not resisted capture when called. He's never done the "open door, RUN FOR IT" bolt I've seen lots of cats do.)

I don't know how long he was at the shelter or how long he was a stray before that, but he was chubby when we got him and his coat was thick and glossy. So maybe he had overly harsh treatment (and I do have my opinions on the practice of declawing cats... they're not positive), but good food? No clue.

He may have run away from an abusive home and not been on the street for long when he was picked up. He may have been kicked out, for that matter. As you realize, not every abusive home includes starving the abused; he may have been well-fed but otherwise harshly treated. If he was chubby when you got him, it could have meant any number of things, such as being free-fed at his last home, having access to several food dishes that kindly people leave out for strays, or so on.

Our eldest cat, Hillary, used to be an indoor/outdoor cat. She's an indoor cat exclusively now, and that seems to suit her fine. She exhibits that same reluctance to go out of an open door. As

canyonwren pointed out, it may not be a mark of anything other than Jack's own personality that he seems skittish about going out. Like with human beings, some like it inside, some like it out.

My impulse too. His discomfort with things that other cats think nothing of suggests that someone used rather unpleasant methods to condition him. I'm glad he's in a more loving home now.

That's exactly my thought. He probably was punished when he jumped on the counter or ate people food enough to make him, if not afraid, then aware he's being a Bad Cat and might get punished again. It doesn't really explain all the behaviors, but it does some. Some of the other fastidious things just may be part of his personality.

Very true, some cats simply are fastidious by nature, even moreso than the average cat is in the first place. The reluctance to walk on clothing, eating off the floor or off any item that isn't a known quantity like his food dish, etc. I've had cats who hate to go outdoors and I've had others who always wanted to go out. They're as unique as we are, after all.

Um... yeah, abused cat. Poor Jack.

Likely someone was very, ahem, *clear* in their training of Jack (poor thing). Though it could also just be a certain personal fastidiousness. We have one cat that always runs to the bathroom to roll on the bathmat whenever anyone attempts to use the toilet, because she assumes that's the time to be petted. And all our cats actually know and respond to their names, separately from each other. For Jack - could not say if it's intelligence or training, or a mere quirk of personality.

Jack seems very interested in the bathroom... often when I come out of the bathroom (I'm a door-shutter when anyone's home) he'll be standing at the door looking quizzical, then will walk into the bathroom and explore a bit, then emerge looking somewhat disappointed that he still hadn't figured out what people do in there. (Actually, given that his sense of smell is much better than mine, he probably knows exactly what the bathroom is for but is baffled by the magical litterbox that cleans itself every time it's used.)

hehe - exactly. I sometimes think it would be very, very interesting to be able to listen into their thought process for just a bit.

My guess so far as the commode is concerned? "They're defecating in the WATER BOWL? Freaking monkeys! I'll never understand them. Least this water bowl knows enough to clean itself out afterwards."

That's probably it... "My god you Tall Ones are stupid, don't even know not to foul your water source! But where did it go?"

I trained my cats with a water bottle. They don't get on counters, try to get out the door (MOST of the time, though I don't make it a point to offer that temptation), or claw things to shreds. And they know better about trying to get at People Food - I simply won't let them, because it could mess up their digestive systems. If you have a really precocious cat, you can put a drop or two of ammonia in the water bottle - it doesn't hurt them at all (as long as you don't spray it in their eyes!), it just makes their fur smell bad. Now, all I have to do is reach for the water bottle and if they're doing something (or thinking about doing something) wrong, they high-tail it out of there. I know this sounds BAD if you've never actually made it a point to train a cat, but it's actually an approved training method that I picked up from a trainer at PetSmart.

And in case anyone thinks that this is abusive - please... I'm the worst about pampering my cats. They get their nails trimmed and bathed every two weeks (usually), cat treats every day, catnip and tuna on special occasions, regular brushings, clean litter boxes every day, and I let them sit on the furniture (some people don't do this because of the fur issue; I just vacuum the fabric every other day or so). I even used to brush their teeth when they were smaller. My cats are like my kids, and I would never do anything to hurt them.

Your cat could just be well-trained. If he doesn't run from you everytime you try to pet him, hold him, or pick him up, then he probably wasn't abused. Any animal that's been abused will usually avoid humanity and try to get away at any cost. Again, it could just be his personality. I used to have a cat that no matter what I did to train her, she was still VERY BAD. I still have the scar on my lip to prove it.

We're a geek household. We have a lot of electronics around, so a water bottle isn't the safest cat trainer. However, we have an alternative that works just as well: compressed air. Air dusters, for blowing computer innards clean of dust and hair and so forth? Makes a nasty hissing sound that resembles a REALLY ticked-off cat. They don't like the sudden, sharp noise accompanied by the heavy air shock... and they REALLY hate it if you turn the can upside down and then spray, since that lets the CO2 come out still partially liquid and extremely cold. No harm at all from a short burst, and also no threat of water going where it shouldn't.

That I'll have to remember... same general problem, but in our case it's books everywhere as well as electronics.

We've books, quite a few, in the house as well. Those however are mostly out of the way, up on shelves.

And in case anyone thinks that this is abusive - please...

Not calling you abusive, but ammonia is toxic and anything you spray on your cat's fur will be groomed off by the cat. Straight water would work just as well, but if you must have that touch of sadism, add vinegar.

Another thing--to cats, ammonia smells like urine, not suprisingly. You're not supposed to treat areas pissed on by a cat because it'll just reinforce that this is a great place to pee. So, if sprayed by ammonia, it's comparable to you wearing lots of urine perfume. And it sticks around way longer than the incident that caused the cat to be sprayed.

Thirdly, you may not aim for the eyes, but mistakes happen. If I wouldn't want it accidentally in my eyes, I'm pretty sure my cats wouldn't want it in theirs.

*shrug* But then, my cats and I commicate with eye contact and a stern tone of voice.

Joe and Sweetie and Smudge all have good manners. Not as impeccable as Jacks, though Smudge only peed on clothes because she had a UTI. She's stopped with antibiotics.

I'm not mean...I do the "Scare the hell out of them" method of banshee scream and orangatang arm wave - and once or twice is normally enough to keep them off tables. (Except Spumoni, but that's

sweet_violet's problem now.)

The rest is positive reinforcement.

If Jack is peeing on stuff and he doesn't normally, I'd take him to the vet to be checked for FUS or a UTI. Otherwise he could be saying the house is not clean enough for his liking and urging you to do something about it.

We had a cat that would not cut across the lawn, he'd walk around on the sidewalk. He also liked to ride in cars.

The peeing on clothes in corners could either be a UTI or a sign of displeasure that you are not as fastidious as he is. If the urine looks like little crystals are in it, get him to a vet ASAP. If he is commenting on the housekeeping, well, you know what to do about that.

Best way I found to get cat urine smell out of clothes is to add both Oxyclean and baking soda to the laundry. If it is really strong, let it soak for a couple of hours. The things one learns when one has an incontinent cat.....

No crystals.

That is good, but keep an eye out to see if he might be straining to pee. But it is beginning to sound more like a kitty statement on housekeeping.

I know where everyone is coming from on the abuse thing, but my cat has equally good manners--better in a not-peeing-on-our-stuff way--and I raised her myself. She's never been abused; during the time when she vanished something happened (accident, I assume), but her personality traits were well set by then and haven't changed appreciably.

Zephyr only eats human food if it's in her bowl or, occasionally, set down in front of her. She won't take it from human dishes or hands unless she's very, very hungry, no matter how good it looks to her. She doesn't beg for human food--she'll sit and look at you while you're eating, but she won't meow. She doesn't claw the furniture (carpet is another story, but she's easily redirected--she used to be great about knowing where her clawing spot was, but we've moved a lot), she snuggles in the bed for a while and then sleeps at the foot of it... in general, she's just an amazingly good cat.

I can take some credit... but I was never harsh with her at all. I never even used a squirt bottle or anything like that for training. All three of my cats got a disapproving tone of voice or, in the case of furniture-clawing, a sharp handclap combined with the disapproving tone of voice. It worked pretty well with all three of them. Zeph used to beg for human food; we'd just sternly say "no begging" and ignore her, and she stopped.

She hates stepping on people unless they're in a thing that is a recognizable bed and have a blanket on them, and hates it when the house is a mess because she doesn't like to step on stuff. She knows she's not allowed on tables or counters, and will jump down quickly if you put her on one. I can bathe her myself easily--she dislikes it but won't scratch or bite.

I'm not meaning to brag here--but lots of people would look at her behaviors, especially how she's shy around new people and people wearing heavy shoes, and think she's been abused. I swear she hasn't. I don't know where she got the boot-fear... seems she's always had it, and it's always confused me. I always let her know what was acceptable and what wasn't, and she chose to do what was... she's naturally a very, very good cat. She always wants to please, and always has.

Jack might be another cat who wants to please his humans, because it's who he is. Or, yeah, he might have been mistreated. I just didn't want you to think that was the only possibility.

Zephyr is am amazing cat. She didn't seem terribly shy to me, just cat-like, and she approaches new people (such as me), in her own time. It makes me happy to hear how she's doing.

You can teach a cat manners without abusing them. It takes a lot of domineering behavior towards them, a strong voice, and total consistency. Most of my own cats have been trained not to get on the table or counters or to stay out of certain rooms. Territory cats understand.

I knew a guy who taught a cat not to put himself against skin, only clothed parts of a person. I was lying in bed with this guy, with my skirt hiked up around my waist, and the cat came and draped himself across that part of me, on top of the skirt.

The guy was ...uh...a Dom. :) But he wasn't abusive to the cat, or me.

If jack isn't avoiding you, or hesitant, then it isn't evidence of abuse. Cats are quick to learn associations, if he'd been treated harshy he'd be cringing or slinking around when he does something he should. You described him as confused...

It's entirely possible he's just fastidous, you get some cats like that, and took to being taught manners really well.

Personally, I find a sharp hiss, and a stamp of the foot, are enough. [both are clear messages in feline, not to do something.] A light tap to the tip of the ear is sometimes called for, especially if teh cats are arguing with each other. Basicaly, mamma cat boxing ears.

If jack isn't avoiding you, or hesitant, then it isn't evidence of abuse.

Actually, you can't say definitely either way, for the same reason I cited earlier: all cats are individuals. Some cats get clingy after abusive experiences instead of avoidant.

When we got our pillow-top matress cover, Yosemite wasn't too sure about walking on it -- it felf funny and she was clearly uncomfortable with the way it felt. Now, however, she has no problem about jumping up on it and walking around like she owns the place. Jack's meowing and people-retrieval habits are very Yosemite-like, too, and we have had our cat baby since she was about 6 weeks old (though the people she was with before were total shits -- witness the story of her adoption -- she never seemed to have a fear of people).

I know some pet owners) train their dogs and cats to never eat out of anything but a pet dish because some people (especially in rural areas) mix poison with tuna or other food to get rid of rats, racoons, coyotes and other animals they feel are undesireable. An unwary cat or dog is in danger, so people mix cayenne pepper with 'outside the dish' food to teach their pets that food that isn't in their dish is a bad thing. While you cuold debate the abusiveness of feeding hot pepper to a pet, in training fluffy or fido to not eat except out of their dish as a lifesaving measure, it is at least purposeful.

Also, does Jack only pee on dirty clothing? It might just be some kind of scent marking behavior (though I have to admit, your descriptions of his behavior did make 'abuse' jump to my mind right away).

Just on dirty clothing that I know of.

Cats can get very strange about scent. If he feels like you are claiming the whole darned place with things that have human scent very strongly on them, he might feel the need to assert himself and claim some territory for himself. Like saying "Hey, I deserve some space too, humans!". But then he knows he has just challenged your dominance by challenging your territory, so he's nervous because that kind of thing can start a fight in cat politics -- and he doesn't really want to fight with you, because you are nice people and he wants to stay in your cat-tribe. But he feels the need to assert his right to space. It may be something similar with not walking on clothes -- the smell so strongly of 'people' that he doesn't want to trespass (literally) on them.

The biting when petting too long is pretty common, too. Some cats just seem to get overloaded and nip or bite after too much affection. After a while, you'll notice the behavior that pre-warns about the overload nipping, and you can put him down before it gets that far.

Most of that is just conjecture, of course, but it is consistant with cat sociology and psychology (as I know it). There is a book by Desmond Morries (of The Naked Ape fame) called Catwatching: Why cats purr and everything else you wanted to know one called The Tribe of Tiger and one called The Character of Cats : The Origins, Intelligence, Behavior and Stratagems of felis silvestris catus that provide interesting biological and "anthropological" (cat-thropological?) information and observations on cats, if you (or the kids) ever feel the need to find out more. All three are easily obtainable at used book stores and public libraries.

Thanks for the cat book recommendations! I'm sure we'll be checking those out at some point.

Jack has never bitten me, only the kids. I've been in the same room when it's happened... no warning sounds... but never <>seen it, to know if Jack is giving some movement or other "leave me alone now" cues. From all reports, he just bites out of the blue. :-\

Interesting stuff on the scent... hmm.

When Yosemite bites from overload she doesn't growl or anything -- her pupils dilate and her whiskers some forward and her demeanor is more pounce-y/hunt-y than laid back and loving. But she can go from one to the other in a flash (Kind of like love, love, love, love, KILLBITEKICK!), and the signs are very subtle. I'd say it was more an expression on her face, than anything else. It really does seem out of the blue, and I can't predict it 100% of the time, but if she tenses up, or her eyes suddenly dilate for no discernable reason while petting I'm her, it is time for a kitty time-out.

I found that putting a sock over my hand and letting the cat play-bite and wrestle with it that way gets out a lot of her need to play and fight. Also, shining a flashlight on the floor and wall and letting her chase it helps, too. Taking a couple kitty treats and letting her eat them off of the 'dead' body of her sock prey seems to fill some deep-seated huntress-like need in her. If she is acting strange and fiesty and violent, often a round of sock-wrestling will settle her down.

Cats of all kinds are very scent-attuned, and very sensitive to issues of territory (both of which feed into some of the notorious problems that people have had when trying to change brands of cat litter -- the new stuff smells different than the old stuff, and moreover, it is a new smell in the cat's intimate space). I have heard that this is true for male cats especially, and is expecially pronounced in all cats during the spring.

Since cats are pack creatures, he might also still be figuring out what his role in the pack is, espcially since your particular pack seems to be kitten-heavy. Who has what role is a pretty important question to a cat, and until he feels comfortable in his role, he might be moody, skittish, or hyper-correct.

Sometimes my cat-child seems so familiar to me that I forget that our mental templates of the world and how it works can be so different.

You are quite welcome about the books. I found the Tribe of Tiger to be quite interesting, though the Desmond Morris book addresses a lot of housecat-specific questions and issues.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Feline Manners

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject